Comments on: Methods of Endurance Training Part 3: Tempo and Sweet Spot Training

By: Larry R

Larry R — Sun, 11 Jul 2010 14:23:59 +0000

Hi Lyle,

As an armchair athlete, somewhere inbetween beginner and highly trained, my V02Max is about 40mg/l (age 51) I am looking to improve my areobic engine and capacity. The intensive training is of interest – however the closest I can come to an hour workout running is like 6 or 7 nine-minute miles. My HR is about 150 during this. Considering it’s about my best, or max, would you call it intensive or sweetspot? It’s in that range and should support areobic improvement say 1-2x per week ?

Do you believe that using the elliptical machine near max for a similar time would have a similar effect? It is much easier on the ankeles, which is where my problems usually occur.
Or woud you say the bike would be better aerobically?

As you have mentioned cycling intervals after steady state say every 6 weeks do you believe that the next set of intervals would build on whatever gains are acheived in the steady-state, again and again? My objective in this regard would be do run a personal best 5K, currently 22:30, going back several decades!

Thanks so much…

Larry

By: Donald

Donald — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 01:13:20 +0000

Sorry Lyle. I read that, but somehow it didn’t register.

By: lylemcd

lylemcd — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:12:55 +0000

Donald: Reread the third paragraph of the article. The one where I point out that running volume are typically about 1/2 of what you see in cycling or rowing. 20-30′ of running ~= 40-60′ of cycling. This is reflected in Part 4 as well on threshold training. A runner might do a single run at 20′, where a cyclist would typically do 2X20′.

Dani: The 220-age equation is worthless. It was developed decades ago on a small group of sedentary people and can vary by several standard deviations either way. You will find people with true maxes far above predicted and others below it. HR’s if used need to be set on an individual test of some sort, whether it’s a max HR test or field test (e.g. HR at lactate threshold). The estimations just don’ get it done.

By: Dani

Dani — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 12:10:26 +0000

Lyle, In the 2nd installment article, you talk about heart rate ranges for runners. I have been doing cardio for many, many years (I teach cardio kickboxing 2-3x per week for the past 6 years) and then have done indoor cardio machines pretty much every other day of the week. Although I am used to running on a treadmill, I recently started running outdoors. In all cardio scenarios, my heart rate is anywhere from 160-200+ (I am 30 yrs old, 158lbs, 5’11″ female). Because this is what my heart rate range has been for many years, I never really thought about it. The girl that I run with however, gets a heart rate reading in the mid 130′s when we are running and based on the generic calculation (220-your age x 65%), my target hr should be 123ish. Should I be concerned that my hr is so high? And since I am currently training for a half marathon, is it unhealthy for me to have such a high hr for such a long period of time?

By: Extreme Fitness Results

Extreme Fitness Results — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:56:45 +0000

The advice you gave on beginners hurting themselves by trying to emulate the elite athletes definitely rings true; a few years back when I started up running I sought to copy a running plan that ended up being too advanced; the first two months felt great, but by the third month I was developing ankle pain, and eventually had to quit. Slow and steady wins the race, sometimes.

By: leo

leo — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:51:06 +0000

great articles, Lyle.
SST training has been the meat and potatoes of my fitness building over the past 2 years as a competitive cyclist.
I highly agree with the warnings about SST and it’s effects on cumulative fatigue; it is HARD, both physically and mentally. Many SST workouts may be written as 1×45 (minutes!) or 2×30′. This is a LONG time to be on the edge of lactate threshold and they take a lot of focus and practice to do right…. but if you’ve only got 75 minutes to get the LT up as high as possible, burn a shitload of calories AND develop the endurance engine, SST is the bees knees. I can burn upwards of 1300 calories in an hour when I’m peaking… this is absurd.

Also I’ll suggest for those just starting SST workouts, aim for shorter durations and shorter interval lengths at first. For many, a steady 20′ interval is completely foreign. Dont go out too fast, but dont slow down either… proper pacing is key.

thanks again, Lyle.

-Leo

By: Donald

Donald — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:09:37 +0000

Interesting stuff. I’m trying to relate it to what I’ve read in various running books and online sites (mostly stuff written in the 90′s, so maybe the advice has changed, though not that I know of).

It sounds to me like you’re talking about young elite athletes. I say that because the various running books typically give a program something like this–

3 or 4 of your runs should be done at the easy pace, for maybe 3-6 miles

You have one long run of 10 -20 miles, mostly at an easy pace. (20 if you’re training for a marathon, otherwise probably closer to 10)

Then you have one or two days of fast running, which comes in two varieties–

There are tempo runs, which in running books I’ve seen are runs of 20-30 minutes at a speed equal to your 10 mile race pace (roughly the pace you could maintain for 60-90 minutes if you had to). Or you could do tempo intervals, which break it up into 10 minute runs at that pace, done 2 or three times.

And then there are “interval workouts”, where you do runs of one quarter to one mile in length at your VO2 max pace (supposedly your race pace for 2 to 3 miles). You rest for about half the time you run and accumulate a total of 3 or 4 miles of fast running.

This sounds similar to the things you’re saying, I think, except that it sounds like your various workouts are about twice as long in duration as what I’ve read. For instance, your tempo training sounds like the tempo runs I’ve read about, except I’ve always read 20 to 30 minutes was fine. So I’m guessing you’re thinking of elite athletes. Is this right?

Personally, as a nearly 50 year old guy trying to get back into shape, I can’t even do the lower-level workouts I outlined at the level I mentioned. My interval workouts right now only add up to about 2 miles, run at a 7:30 mile per minute pace. I was doing the sort of stuff I described in my early 40′s, but slacked off a bit more recently for various reasons.