Comments on: Methods of Endurance Training Part 2: Miles Build Champions http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/methods-of-endurance-training-part-2-miles-build-champions.html Training and Nutrition advice, straight from the monkey's mouth. Sun, 22 Jan 2012 21:56:52 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Gonzo http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/methods-of-endurance-training-part-2-miles-build-champions.html/comment-page-1#comment-4925 Gonzo Sun, 30 May 2010 00:38:46 +0000 http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/?p=2723#comment-4925 Excellent stuff. Excellent stuff.

]]> By: lylemcd http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/methods-of-endurance-training-part-2-miles-build-champions.html/comment-page-1#comment-3671 lylemcd Fri, 06 Nov 2009 15:32:52 +0000 http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/?p=2723#comment-3671 Certainly length of event plays a huge role in this. This is something I'm going to talk about a bit today but if you have to be able to go for 4 hours in a road race (and folks also need to keep in mind that stage races mean that races have to be able to do that kind of thing day in day out for various lengths of times), some amount of long rides will be absolutely required. This is in contrast to say, someone racing primarily crits (usually an hour or less with more focus on tactics, cornering and breaks out of the corner). The need to be able to hang in for 4 hours to the end just isn't as critical. If you can hang at tempo for 3 hours straight, you have my kudos. But it will probably help. Just don't neglect the other stuff (pushing up FTP/VO2 max/etc.). Certainly length of event plays a huge role in this. This is something I’m going to talk about a bit today but if you have to be able to go for 4 hours in a road race (and folks also need to keep in mind that stage races mean that races have to be able to do that kind of thing day in day out for various lengths of times), some amount of long rides will be absolutely required.

This is in contrast to say, someone racing primarily crits (usually an hour or less with more focus on tactics, cornering and breaks out of the corner). The need to be able to hang in for 4 hours to the end just isn’t as critical. If you can hang at tempo for 3 hours straight, you have my kudos. But it will probably help. Just don’t neglect the other stuff (pushing up FTP/VO2 max/etc.).

]]> By: Leo http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/methods-of-endurance-training-part-2-miles-build-champions.html/comment-page-1#comment-3670 Leo Fri, 06 Nov 2009 13:00:39 +0000 http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/?p=2723#comment-3670 I'm a 4th year competitive cyclist (competitive Cat 3) and can completely understand the main points in the article and have been struggling/battling with how to best balance volume/intensity. I've been doing lots of sweetspot workouts (1x60, 3x30... @ 88-94% of LTP) over the past 2 winters and have found them to offer a tremendous bang for your buck method of boosting lactate threshold without generating much mental/physical burnout. This said, I've made the commitment this season to doing more "long" rides this off season in preperation for the long road races that I do starting in the spring. I've been slowly increacing the energy output on my long rides, starting at 1500kjs and slowly moving up to the eventual goal of 3200+ kj rides, to approximate the energy expenditure needed for a 3 hour race in the hills. My lack of rides in this duration last season was not a huge limiter, but I found myself getting in long breakaways with no juice left to finish off races. This makes tons of sense as I was used to a 2 hour (2000kj) training ride, but when I hit that 2 hour mark, I was spent... any efforts over LT were VERY tough. My body was not prepared to do work that deep into a race... I had no practice in training. Too much Sweetspot, not enough long miles, i propose. This season I want to be the most efficient fat burner possible, so more long rides it is. The intensity I'm targeting for these long rides has been around 300watts for 2 hours (about 86% of LTP, or 86% of LT heartrate). So it's still serious pace, just long and steady.... I have goals of doing 300w for 3 hours eventually. But, I'm getting towards that "experienced" status as I've been training seriously for about 40 months straight. I'll also be using SST when time/weather prohibits my longer rides (of which I'll be doing 6/month). Thoughts? -Leo I’m a 4th year competitive cyclist (competitive Cat 3) and can completely understand the main points in the article and have been struggling/battling with how to best balance volume/intensity.
I’ve been doing lots of sweetspot workouts (1×60, 3×30… @ 88-94% of LTP) over the past 2 winters and have found them to offer a tremendous bang for your buck method of boosting lactate threshold without generating much mental/physical burnout.

This said, I’ve made the commitment this season to doing more “long” rides this off season in preperation for the long road races that I do starting in the spring. I’ve been slowly increacing the energy output on my long rides, starting at 1500kjs and slowly moving up to the eventual goal of 3200+ kj rides, to approximate the energy expenditure needed for a 3 hour race in the hills.

My lack of rides in this duration last season was not a huge limiter, but I found myself getting in long breakaways with no juice left to finish off races. This makes tons of sense as I was used to a 2 hour (2000kj) training ride, but when I hit that 2 hour mark, I was spent… any efforts over LT were VERY tough. My body was not prepared to do work that deep into a race… I had no practice in training. Too much Sweetspot, not enough long miles, i propose.

This season I want to be the most efficient fat burner possible, so more long rides it is. The intensity I’m targeting for these long rides has been around 300watts for 2 hours (about 86% of LTP, or 86% of LT heartrate). So it’s still serious pace, just long and steady…. I have goals of doing 300w for 3 hours eventually. But, I’m getting towards that “experienced” status as I’ve been training seriously for about 40 months straight.

I’ll also be using SST when time/weather prohibits my longer rides (of which I’ll be doing 6/month).

Thoughts?

-Leo

]]> By: lylemcd http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/methods-of-endurance-training-part-2-miles-build-champions.html/comment-page-1#comment-3669 lylemcd Thu, 05 Nov 2009 20:17:50 +0000 http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/?p=2723#comment-3669 Cynthia: certainly one thing to consider is years of training, this is something I'm going to talk about a bit tomorrow as a segue from this piece to the next. Top level athletes spend years building their tolerance to volume. Beginners in all sports often make the logical mistake of "I want to be elite, I'm going to copy what elite performers do". And get themselves into trouble with too much volume, too much intensity or both. They didn't factor the 5-10 years that the elites spend building up to that level of training. So where 30 minutes three times per week of low intensity endurance training is more than sufficient for a rank beginner, over their first months or years of training, this needs to move upwards to some degree but it has to be gradual to allow adaptation. A rule that many coaches apply is to do to the least amount of work that will make you better, only increasing when it stops working. When people jump into high mileage running from day 1 (on hard pavement no less) their joints tend to fall off. Even cycling and non-impact stuf can cause problems. People's impatience is usually their own downfall. Cynthia: certainly one thing to consider is years of training, this is something I’m going to talk about a bit tomorrow as a segue from this piece to the next. Top level athletes spend years building their tolerance to volume.

Beginners in all sports often make the logical mistake of “I want to be elite, I’m going to copy what elite performers do”. And get themselves into trouble with too much volume, too much intensity or both. They didn’t factor the 5-10 years that the elites spend building up to that level of training.

So where 30 minutes three times per week of low intensity endurance training is more than sufficient for a rank beginner, over their first months or years of training, this needs to move upwards to some degree but it has to be gradual to allow adaptation. A rule that many coaches apply is to do to the least amount of work that will make you better, only increasing when it stops working.

When people jump into high mileage running from day 1 (on hard pavement no less) their joints tend to fall off. Even cycling and non-impact stuf can cause problems. People’s impatience is usually their own downfall.

]]> By: Cynthia http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/methods-of-endurance-training-part-2-miles-build-champions.html/comment-page-1#comment-3667 Cynthia Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:17:35 +0000 http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/?p=2723#comment-3667 Very nice post! I would add that the thinking is that at low intensities, eventually even the type I fibers fatigue, and then more type II fibers are recruited, resulting in adaptation of some type II fibers to become oxidative glycolytic fibers and contribute to the workload. I also don't think the high mileage in itself damages anything, but the fact that your body is not adapted to it (if you are at all new to it or to that level of training) or it is done at too high an intensity, contributes to damage. Many of us were not very athletic as children and so did not develop strong bones and connective tissues when we were young, or, we have not maintained a high level of activity since childhood. Then we are too impatient to allow our bodies to adapt at a pace they are capable of, and push too hard mileage or intensity wise until something blows up. This is especially true with connective tissues as you point out, which may take months or more to strengthen and adapt to stress. I also don't think boredom is the issue either (but I've never tried to train everyday for 6 to 7 hours a day either!), but lack of time would be. Shortcuts such as increased intensity/shorter duration training is fine unless you want to be a world class athlete. In his article also entitled "Miles Make Champions," Richard Englehart points out that American distance runners are no longer competitive because of reliance on "high intensity" methods as a shortcut to quick performance gains. I also wonder if the lower intensity training is safer for the heart than redlining with maximal efforts during high intensity training? Very nice post! I would add that the thinking is that at low intensities, eventually even the type I fibers fatigue, and then more type II fibers are recruited, resulting in adaptation of some type II fibers to become oxidative glycolytic fibers and contribute to the workload. I also don’t think the high mileage in itself damages anything, but the fact that your body is not adapted to it (if you are at all new to it or to that level of training) or it is done at too high an intensity, contributes to damage. Many of us were not very athletic as children and so did not develop strong bones and connective tissues when we were young, or, we have not maintained a high level of activity since childhood. Then we are too impatient to allow our bodies to adapt at a pace they are capable of, and push too hard mileage or intensity wise until something blows up. This is especially true with connective tissues as you point out, which may take months or more to strengthen and adapt to stress. I also don’t think boredom is the issue either (but I’ve never tried to train everyday for 6 to 7 hours a day either!), but lack of time would be. Shortcuts such as increased intensity/shorter duration training is fine unless you want to be a world class athlete. In his article also entitled “Miles Make Champions,” Richard Englehart points out that American distance runners are no longer competitive because of reliance on “high intensity” methods as a shortcut to quick performance gains. I also wonder if the lower intensity training is safer for the heart than redlining with maximal efforts during high intensity training?

]]> By: Extreme Fitness Results http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/methods-of-endurance-training-part-2-miles-build-champions.html/comment-page-1#comment-3666 Extreme Fitness Results Wed, 04 Nov 2009 21:07:56 +0000 http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/?p=2723#comment-3666 Fascinating. Thanks for the lengthy and thorough explanation as to how this all works. I'm planning a lengthy and arduous hike next year in the mountains (about 10 days), and am beginning to seriously consider what sort of conditioning I need to do to accomplish it with both ease and enjoyment. Clearly the Miles Builds Champions formula is out for me, due to not only a lack of time during the course of the day but also my position as a relative beginner to endurance training. Thus I'm intensely curious to see what you discuss this Friday. Cheers! Fascinating. Thanks for the lengthy and thorough explanation as to how this all works. I’m planning a lengthy and arduous hike next year in the mountains (about 10 days), and am beginning to seriously consider what sort of conditioning I need to do to accomplish it with both ease and enjoyment. Clearly the Miles Builds Champions formula is out for me, due to not only a lack of time during the course of the day but also my position as a relative beginner to endurance training. Thus I’m intensely curious to see what you discuss this Friday. Cheers!

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