Comments on: Excess Protein and Fat Storage – Q&A

By: James V

James V — Tue, 06 Sep 2011 17:37:09 +0000

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UE8q0JiR7Dc

Close enough?

By: Paul

Paul — Tue, 07 Jun 2011 02:06:18 +0000

Here is my take on it. First, unlike the popular wives tale, a calorie is not a calorie. See while fat has 9 cal/g not all of that 9 cal is used for energy. The body is a living organism. It is constantly repairing and replacing parts. So, knowing that all human cells contain a cell membrane made of a lipid bilayer, how much you wanna bet that some of the fat intake is broken down to make new cell membranes, or used in the G1 or G2 phase of the cell life cycle. Second, many hormones are made from sterols, ie Cholesterol. So I would be willing to bet a dime to a dollar that a good deal of that fat is used for making hormones. Now on to Carbohydrate. Most if not all of your stored fat comes from Carbohydrate. Here’s why and how part of what has been argued is correct. When the body is using carbohydrate for energy, as is typical in todays diets, it causes the glucose to spike. The body has an abundance of energy available, it goes through the krebs cycle, yada yada. Then since it generally has more sugar than needed, insulin is released and the sugar is converted into fat for storage. Finally our good friend protein. Protein is generally handled in the body, one of three ways. It is used for repairing muscle tissue, it is turned into sugar through gluconeogenesis, or it is excreted. Excretion is probably the last option for protein. When there is not enough Carbohydrate to continue to run the body it looks for other ways to make energy. Protein is the next option. It starts to turn protein into sugar (glucose) in order to fuel the body for energy. Here is the great part. Just like fat, protein is broken down and used to repair/rebuild, etc, cell parts. Muscle cells are repaired, amino acids are made so the pieces needed to construct a gene are present. So of the 4 cal that protein has, I would argue a good deal of it is also not turned into energy. Finally fat is burned. The body actually prefers this to protein to get energy. Fat is easily converted into glucose. This is why the body turns excess carbohydrates into fat. To store sugar would make us immovable. Sugar is a solid at room temp and not readily disolvable in water at low temps. Anyway, ketoacidosis is the outcome of burning fat. These ketone bodies are readily filtered by the kidneys and excreted in the urine. Lastly I will quickly address the prtoein poisoning issue. YES you can get protein poisoning from too much protein. However, if you are eating fat, this is not going to happen. Here’s why. Because our bodies are an efficient machine, it does not readily nor easily turn protein into fat. So if there is no fat, and the body does not effectively convert protein to fat, protein builds up in the liver and you get the symptoms of rabbit poisoning (protein poisoning). Rabbits are a lean creature and do not have ample amounts of Carbohydrate or Fat in them. Rabbit is leaner than venison. Therfore people stranded in the middle of nowhere who eat just rabbits will get protein poisoning if there is not a source of carbohydrate or fat present.

By: Mitch Kelly

Mitch Kelly — Mon, 20 Dec 2010 19:58:10 +0000

Protein poisoning is well documented in survival situations, and in certain subsistence cultures. It would be difficult, but not impossible, for someone on a poorly planned, “extreme health” diet to do the same.

By: Marco

Marco — Tue, 14 Sep 2010 13:24:57 +0000

Ok thanks DeeLee. I have to admit I’m cognitively-challenged and it took a while before it sank in. AND I found the answer to my question in another great article that I hadn’t read/had overlooked “How we get fat”. I’m amazed at the density of info there is in all these articles: assimilate all the stuff in the zillion articles and I bet you can “beat” any RD hands down!

By: DeeLee

DeeLee — Mon, 06 Sep 2010 22:59:07 +0000

Your example boils down to degree of caloric surplus. 100g of extra fat is more than twice the calories of 100g extra carbs. Surplus of 6300 per week vs. 2800 calorie surplus per week — a difference that is roughly equal to 1 pound of fat per week.

I’m no expert but am pretty sure you would see changes — mostly fat gain — if you upped carbs by 6300 Per week over maintenance. Your maintenance cals of 25% fat would almost entirely be stored, as fat, rather than oxidized. No need for your body to use fat for fuel.

By: marco

marco — Sun, 05 Sep 2010 02:53:46 +0000

In Michael Colgan’s Optimum Sports Nutrition, there was a table with recommended daily intake of carbs at different weights per hours of training. He said there was a “slight bias toward overfeeding of carbs” for protein-sparing purposes and that if one was gaining 1 pound of fat or so/week, they needed to cut back. At maintenance, ratio C-P-F 45/30/25, if I add 100g of pure carbs, next to nothing happens, but 100g of pure fat (given low conversion cost)=1 pound of fat gained every 4 days. I would guess that above maintenance at any given macro ratio, given EFA’s needs are met, fat is to be kept to a bare minimum. That being said, why is it nearly impossible to bulk/gain muscle without gaining some fat if the extra calories are all carbs and protein? Thank you Lyle, or anyone else, for helping me clear some of the confusion (mine, that is).

By: lylemcd

lylemcd — Tue, 31 Aug 2010 15:12:36 +0000

1. A diet of pure protein is pretty much impossible to achieve in practice. All proteins have some tagalong carbs or fats.

2. You’re not going to get net lipogenesis (fat production) below maintenance calories.

By: Nicki

Nicki — Wed, 25 Aug 2010 16:13:51 +0000

KISS:

1. A diet of purely protein, above or below maintanence, will kill you.
2. A diet without fat is one of the few times where the body starts converting carbs into fat. Above or below maintanence.

By: Dan

Dan — Thu, 25 Mar 2010 22:06:39 +0000

I know its not black and white, and my example is definately extreme. But it makes sense to me that if you take in an extra 500 calories of protein over maintanence, then you are going to add fat. It might not be that the protein is converted to fat, as this article suggests, but maybe some of that protein is used for energy. In this case, less fat will be used for energy, and thus there will be a surplus of fat.

So maybe excess protein doesn’t get CONVERTED to fat, but excess protein would still lead to and increase in fat storage.

So doesn’t it really still just come down to calorie balance?

By: nkl

nkl — Thu, 25 Mar 2010 11:37:54 +0000

Its not black and white. The body is smart. It adapts. Eat more protein and it will adapt by focusing more effort at taking care of protein (store+burn). The same goes for carbs (store+burn). Fat oxidation will not adapt to increases or decreases in fat intake by the same amount, but it will adapt to changes in protein and carb intake. However it will never shut down oxidation completely. Some tissues still prefer fat as fuel, while other tissues are less picky.

How much protein you store as muscle tissue are limited by how primed the body is for building new muscle (hormone levels, energy surplus, gene transcription, etc.) and available substrates. Organs in the gut will also hypertrophy as you increase protein consuption. Protein oxidation will increase to match intake, although slowly. Adaptation is aimed at finding homeostasis any way it can. Dont dream of gains that cannot be reached (yes, I know you speculate).

Change in amount of stored fat is described by the equation: fat intake – fat oxidation = x. In the unlikely event of DNL, more fat is added. So, enjoy your carb refeeds (provided you have depleted yourself, of course). Fat free diets are unhealthy and not very practical. Enjoy a moderate amount of fat in your diet.

End rant. (I hope Lyle corrects me if there is some mistakes in my post)