there are studies suggesting that high level of LDL is associated with a high carb intake. It is not what the LDL is made of, it is about how it is produced. If I recall correctly, with a high carb intake the liver starts churning out low density cholesterol.

// Manne

Read the summary another 4-6 times until the words makes sense. Your myopia that sat fat is ‘good’ is just as idiotic as the ‘myopia’ of others that it’s bad

IT DEPENDS ON CONTEXT!

Lyle

It would help if you didn’t use papers authored by Loren Cordain, since he is a known saturated fat-phobe. While wild game is lower in fat than the typical corn-fed American beef, early man made it a point to seek out the fattest animals. When it’s your survival on the line, every calorie counts. Can you really see some paleolithic humans gathered around the fire, carefully cutting off the fat from their fresh kill? Studies have shown, using carbon isotopes from the bones of Neanderthal, that they were essentially carnivores. I doubt they had a fiber intake of 100-150 grams per day.

Also – to quote from above “and generally contain the wrong types of fats (an excess of saturated and trans fats with insufficient amounts of healthy fats)” – seems to me like you are interested in demonizing saturated fat to a certain extent. Why else would it not be included in the “healthy fats”?

Yes! Also depends on genes I suspect. In all diabetes groups there appear to be one or two individuals who can genuinely make a high carb low fat diet work, which I now accept are genetic outliers.

My specific diabetic gene set appears to convert saturated fats into HDL at the expense of LDL so long as my carb input is low enough to not spike my glucose and hence insulin levels. Not everyone can do this but it appears to be a common phenomenon, at least more widespread than the converse. Weirdly though (and familial) I have difficulty turning anything into body fat, the only diet that triggered weight gain was, you guessed it, the Heart Healthy High Carb Low Fat diet. Also eating more saturated fat greatly improves my energy and activty level, the above diet had me semipermanently exhausted.

So I’m a genetic outlier at the other end of the continuum.

I seriously wish I’d discovered this *before* spending 50 years eating muesli and brown rice.

***
Eur J Clin Nutr. 2002 Mar;56 Suppl 1:S42-52.Click here to read Links
The paradoxical nature of hunter-gatherer diets: meat-based, yet non-atherogenic.
Cordain L, Eaton SB, Miller JB, Mann N, Hill K.

Department of Health and Exercise Science, Colorado State University, Fort Collins, Colorado, USA. cordain@cahs.colostate.edu

OBJECTIVE: Field studies of twentieth century hunter-gathers (HG) showed them to be generally free of the signs and symptoms of cardiovascular disease (CVD). Consequently, the characterization of HG diets may have important implications in designing therapeutic diets that reduce the risk for CVD in Westernized societies. Based upon limited ethnographic data (n=58 HG societies) and a single quantitative dietary study, it has been commonly inferred that gathered plant foods provided the dominant energy source in HG diets. METHOD AND RESULTS: In this review we have analyzed the 13 known quantitative dietary studies of HG and demonstrate that animal food actually provided the dominant (65%) energy source, while gathered plant foods comprised the remainder (35%). This data is consistent with a more recent, comprehensive review of the entire ethnographic data (n=229 HG societies) that showed the mean subsistence dependence upon gathered plant foods was 32%, whereas it was 68% for animal foods. Other evidence, including isotopic analyses of Paleolithic hominid collagen tissue, reductions in hominid gut size, low activity levels of certain enzymes, and optimal foraging data all point toward a long history of meat-based diets in our species. Because increasing meat consumption in Western diets is frequently associated with increased risk for CVD mortality, it is seemingly paradoxical that HG societies, who consume the majority of their energy from animal food, have been shown to be relatively free of the signs and symptoms of CVD. CONCLUSION: The high reliance upon animal-based foods would not have necessarily elicited unfavorable blood lipid profiles because of the hypolipidemic effects of high dietary protein (19-35% energy) and the relatively low level of dietary carbohydrate (22-40% energy). Although fat intake (28-58% energy) would have been similar to or higher than that found in Western diets, it is likely that important qualitative differences in fat intake, including relatively high levels of MUFA and PUFA and a lower omega-6/omega-3 fatty acid ratio, would have served to inhibit the development of CVD. Other dietary characteristics including high intakes of antioxidants, fiber, vitamins and phytochemicals along with a low salt intake may have operated synergistically with lifestyle characteristics (more exercise, less stress and no smoking) to further deter the development of CVD.

***
Mayo Clin Proc. 2004 Jan;79(1):101-8.Click here to read Links

Comment in:
Mayo Clin Proc. 2004 May;79(5):703; author reply 703-4, 707.

Cardiovascular disease resulting from a diet and lifestyle at odds with our Paleolithic genome: how to become a 21st-century hunter-gatherer.
O’Keefe JH Jr, Cordain L.

Mid America Heart Institute, Cardiovascular Consultants, Kansas City, MO 64111, USA. jhokeefe@cc-pc.com

Our genetic make-up, shaped through millions of years of evolution, determines our nutritional and activity needs. Although the human genome has remained primarily unchanged since the agricultural revolution 10,000 years ago, our diet and lifestyle have become progressively more divergent from those of our ancient ancestors. Accumulating evidence suggests that this mismatch between our modern diet and lifestyle and our Paleolithic genome is playing a substantial role in the ongoing epidemics of obesity, hypertension, diabetes, and atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease. Until 500 generations ago, all humans consumed only wild and unprocessed food foraged and hunted from their environment. These circumstances provided a diet high in lean protein, polyunsaturated fats (especially omega-3 [omega-3] fatty acids), monounsaturated fats, fiber, vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, and other beneficial phytochemicals. Historical and anthropological studies show hunter-gatherers generally to be healthy, fit, and largely free of the degenerative cardiovascular diseases common in modern societies. This review outlines the essence of our hunter-gatherer genetic legacy and suggests practical steps to re-align our modern milieu with our ancient genome in an effort to improve cardiovascular health.

***
Eur J Nutr. 2000 Apr;39(2):71-9.Click here to read Links
Dietary lean red meat and human evolution.
Mann N.

Department of Food Science, RMIT University, Melbourne, VIC, Australia. neil.mann@rmit.edu.au

Scientific evidence is accumulating that meat itself is not a risk factor for Western lifestyle diseases such as cardiovascular disease, but rather the risk stems from the excessive fat and particularly saturated fat associated with the meat of modern domesticated animals. In our own studies, we have shown evidence that diets high in lean red meat can actually lower plasma cholesterol, contribute significantly to tissue omega-3 fatty acid and provide a good source of iron, zinc and vitamin B12. A study of human and pre-human diet history shows that for a period of at least 2 million years the human ancestral line had been consuming increasing quantities of meat. During that time, evolutionary selection was in action, adapting our genetic make up and hence our physiological features to a diet high in lean meat. This meat was wild game meat, low in total and saturated fat and relatively rich in polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA). The evidence presented in this review looks at various lines of study which indicate the reliance on meat intake as a major energy source by pre-agricultural humans. The distinct fields briefly reviewed include: fossil isotope studies, human gut morphology, human encephalisation and energy requirements, optimal foraging theory, insulin resistance and studies on hunter-gatherer societies. In conclusion, lean meat is a healthy and beneficial component of any well-balanced diet as long as it is fat trimmed and consumed as part of a varied diet.

I have read Biochemical Individuality. Beyond that, I’d suggest you reread my articles since you apparently missed my point. Or did you miss comments like:

‘Thus, whether or not you’re gaining or losing weight probably impacts on whether or not dietary fat is a health risk. I’d note that studies in cyclists find that high intakes of saturated fat don’t pose a health problem as long as the athletes are in calorie balance. As I mentioned above, activity (which will affect whether ingested dietary fat is stored or burned off) plays a big role here.”

Whether saturated fat is positive, negative or neutral depends on a staggering number of factors including activity, the rest of the diet, whether they are eating more, less or as much as they need. Etc. All addressed in my articles in detail.

Rather, you MIS-read my articles through your own filter. You ‘heard’ me say that saturated fat is unhealthy when I said no such thing.

That’s why it’s a controversy.

Saturated fat in the context of the modern diet (inactivity, high carb intake, obesity, inflammation) is distinctly unhealthy and the studies all support that. Saturated fat in the context of high activity, lots of vegetables, leanness) probably is no big deal and the studies support that too.

Saying that it’s ‘healthy’ is as simplistically wrong as saying that it’s unhealthy.

It DEPENDS on the context.

As well, if you can show me a peer reviewed study showing caloric absorption as low as 40%, I’ve love to see it. Because it doesn’t exist. Soluble fiber has, at best, a small effect on caloric absorption.

Excess w-6 can certainly be a problem although I’d point you to recent work suggesting that w-6 can have anti-inflammatory effects. It’s certainly not as cut and dry as the books you’re reading make it sound. I’d suggest you spend more time on Medline and less time reading fringe dietary advice to become whatever is it you want to become.

Lyle

***
Too much linoleic acid promotes inflammation-doesn’t it?

Fritsche KL.

Prostaglandins Leukot Essent Fatty Acids. 2008 Nov 4. [Epub ahead of print]

Are you familiar with the work of biochemist Roger J. Williams, PhD? If not, I recommend “Biochemical Individuality” and “Nutrition Against Disease.” I’m suggesting you read these books because, while very knowledgeable in many respects, you seem to view saturated fat as somewhat of a health hazard. After more than 30 years of studying nutrition, I see omega 6 oils as a major health hazard rather than saturated fats. Suggest you Google “omega 6 oils hazards” and “Peter Havel fructose.”

Another issue is unabsorbed calories. Individuals are variously biochemically and physiologically equipped to absorb calories more or less efficiently. Average absorption is about 80 percent ranging down to 40 percent depending on soluble fiber intake. Suggest you Google “unabsorbed calories” or Calorie Excretion” for more info.

I like your open-minded approach.

Regards,
David Brown
Nutrition Education Project