Comments on: Body Composition Recommendations

By: Sam

Sam — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 16:32:27 +0000

Hi Lyle. No prpblem, once I have finalised some of the data, i’ll post something more concrete and of use to you and the rest of readers.
Sam

By: admin

admin — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 17:44:44 +0000

Sam

Thanks for the comments, I’d love to hear what you come up with as a final conclusion on the Bodymetrix.

Thanks
Lyle

By: sam

sam — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 12:31:44 +0000

Just adding to the conversation on the bodymetrix. I’m doing some validity work on the tool at the moment, against a couple of criterion anthropometrists (i.e. highly trained in taking skin folds). Looking at the data I have so far, I’m not very convinced – the measures seem to have poor repeatability and poor agreement with skinfolds. There are a number of queries I’m looking for the company to answer – i.e. the formula that are used to predict %BF are based on skinfold data, which is essentially a double layer of subcutaneous adipose tissue which is also compressed, not a single un compressed layer as is provided by the ultrasound reading.
If you look carefully at some of the data on their web site – it’s not terribly convincing.
That said – there is an interesting paper in Medicine and Science in Sport and Exercise (Utter and hager, 2008) which compares the bodymetrix to skinfolds and underwater weighing in high school wrestlers. They seem to think it’s OK – but they don’t report absolute measures which may be an intentional oversight!
In short – I think this is a great tool in principle and your clients would probably think it’s great – but i think you would be better getting well qualified to assess skinfolds in the traditional way and be able to take into account your error when you are detecting change.

By: RG

RG — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:55:15 +0000

Hi Lyle,
I’ve been trying to absorb the information on your site for a few months, but I’m still new to it, so I’m sorry if I’m asking something that’s obvious or answered elsewhere. What do you think health recommendations should be for Asians? There is the “Asian BMI” scale, which puts me at obese with a BMI of 26. Many people laugh when I tell them this. However, the stats show that Asians of a particular weight have 7-10% higher bodyfat. Does that mean that caliper estimates are off (because of the bone-mass thing) or that does % bodyfat not matter as much? There are some scary stats out there about the problems with syndrome X appearing in Asians much younger and at a much lower weight level (borne out by my experience in my family). I guess, as a 5’2″ woman, I have a hard time figuring out the right weight to shoot for, or the right caliper/ tape measure readings if you will. At what point am I going to be losing more muscle and good stuff? What are your “body composition recommendations” for health?

By: admin

admin — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 11:23:28 +0000

Jack: I don’t honestly know much more about the Bodymetrix than what I said before/what is on their site. If it’s accurate, I think it would get around a lot of the problems (especially user skill) for commercial facilities. But that’s honestly the best I can say at this point.

Hal:
1. It can happen but usually involves complex cyclical diets. I’ve seen folks gain strength/muscle on my Ultimate Diet 2.0 for example, while losing fat. But that diet also alternates distinct periods of fat loss (the 4 day diet phase) with 3 days of overfeeding (the 3 day carb-load phase).
2. Yes, that makes sense. Even though I was intending to talk about body composition changes going both directions, most of my comments in this article ended up talking about about fat loss. But changes in muscle mass are typically slower and taking measurements less frequently makes more sense.
3. I never measured chin or cheek so I can’t comment on if they change faster than the sites I did pay attention to.

Travis: Your assumption is 100% correct. I mentioned waist since that is typically what changes the most in males. But it’s certainly not universal and certainly not the only place that fat can accumulate. Many males carry a good bit of fat in the upper back and you could be gaining fat in that area that a tape measure measurement (or a 3 site caliper measurement based on pec, ab, and thigh) wouldn’t pick up.

By: Travis

Travis — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 03:05:19 +0000

Great read Lyle. I’m about to embark on a 5-8 week training split (Defranco inspired) and the goal is both strength and size. My only methods of measurement will be:

Scale
Tape Measure
Mirror (with pictures)

Now my question is (disregarding the pics) at the end of the split if I have maintained the same waist size, but the scale is up, does that necessarily mean the gains were all LBM? I’m assuming no as body fat accumulation does not always distribute evenly in individuals.

Btw, I’ll be eatin a surplus of cals, and I am approx 9% BF currently.

Thanks

By: Hal

Hal — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 03:33:28 +0000

Lyle,

If you find a free moment, I’d appreciate your thoughts on the following article-related questions.

1) Outside of beginners, can you think of an instance off the top of your head where strength maintenance or moderate increases could actually be coupled with muscle loss (at least to a “real-world” significant degree)? Or would this be an exceedingly rare occurence?

2) When focusing on muscle gain and since muscle gain is neither linear nor likely to be at a rate seen with fat loss, would you recommend slightly longer periods between reassessment and deciding whether to adjust caloric intake? i.e. 3 weeks at the fewest and possibly even upwards of 5? I ask this because with muscle gain it seems especially prone to lulls and spikes even though the average rate tends to come out as a very conservative value.

3) You mentioned that in some cases, some folks won’t see any changes during the first 4 weeks or so of a new fat-loss program. During this period, will chin and cheek measurements be able to show some slight change to potentially dangle as a motivational carrot for the individual?

By: Jack

Jack — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 02:37:48 +0000

Hi Lyle.

With that Bodymetrix device you mentioned in past articles, would the ultrasound be able to give accurate thickness measurements in millimeters for muscle and fat to enable to use those independently of a formula to assess progress? i.e. if muscles readings in mm’s are higher and scale weight is going up, then a given training and nutrition protocol is having the intended effects? The company website claims that the device had only a tenth of a mm difference in thickness compared with measurements from a CT scan.

Would the ultrasound also enable you to track changes in visceral fat since it’s not using a skinfold pinch as with standard calipers?

The information I could find makes it sound (at least on the surface) like this would be a very consistent method since the only “technique” involved is finding the proper measurement sites. In addition, it could be especially helpful when measuring contest bodybuilders, since getting accurate skinfolds when they get particularly lean would be increasingly challenging (well, unless having logged many, many hours of practice already). There would seem to be utility with heavier people, as well. Any embarrassment factor for heavier folks who may want body comp testing but are less than keen about having someone “pinch their rolls,” as it were, would likely disappear.

After hearing you mention it in your article, I checked out their website and have been debating whether this would be a worthwhile investment for my gym and training business. I don’t want to blindly buy every new gadget simply for the sake of looking fancy, but I’m intrigued by the potential of an item like this, especially since it should last if properly cared for. I’d appreciate your thoughts vis-a-vis possibly purchasing an item like this.